Curse

roshanabey2 · Apr 28, 2008, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

Holy Crap! An inteligent post at last!
Not that there arent many here, but this one explains it all.

And i would like to state some points that people are really forgeting:
*Before Ursan, the player comunity forced you to play X,Y,Z profession with A,B and C skills. And dont tell me that im wrong because i am a mesmer. And just by understanding my last sentence (saying that i am a mesmer) you agree with me. So removing the ursan problem wont make all pve trouble go away.
*The grind thing was really introduced with the intetion to give the false idea of depth, and it is really working, you all ARE playing arent you? Imagine the game without this incessant grind: we would be back to the Factions time, but with hard mode, you would have dungeons to play at pve and thats it. With that we would be bored in NO TIME.

The problem i really see with the grind thing is that the only one you really have to... grind, is the Luxon/Kurzick titles. The reputation ones you can get about to 8 if play the dungeons (at normal and hard) and vanquish all Eye of The North expansion areas. Although that might look good that is also a problem.

For me, the one example they should follow is the Sunspear Title Track. Why? Because can get it into rank 8 just by playing the storyline and some quests, if you would like to. With that, you will get a good rank for the pve skill, and getting it into rank 10 will make a slight difference, so its not something you HAVE TO DO.

Now at the Eye of The North, if you do all the quests and all (no dungeons included) you will get about rank 4 at maximum. And we all understand that rank 4, specially for the EoTN skills that have a decent increase of parameters (also in quantity because there are so many skills), isnt enough.
Now you have 2 things FORCING you to get into rank 10: The skill parameters+player community AND the Hall of Monuments.
You can allways deny the player community by playing with other people or with our ever-friendly Heroes and Henchman. But you cannot deny the Hall of Monuments. Its something that is allways there and says "GET THE TITLE AT MAXIMUM OR LOSE IT AT GUILD WARS 2 Muahahahaaaaa...ha...".
And thats really what it is doing nowadays, forcing players to get the titles or else their time playing the game will be worthless.
I dont know about you, but I feel forced to get rank 10 sunspear when i have it at rank8, or get 100% cartographer when i have 90%.

Another topic that came up to my mind by saying this is that, if the awards for GuildWars 2 arent account-wide, i will feel very depressed. Because i will have to choose from one of my characters to get these cursed titles, and the rest will be abandoned (and why would we have characyers slots, if the rest is going to "die" anyways?). And thats where the game will get VERY boring, having to grind with only one character and not beeing able to play with another one, knowing that it will be waste of time... wow... thats awful.
A.Net could tell us how is it going to work... i mean... at least!

ze end.

thank you....... you did my post but even smarter

Bryant Again · Apr 28, 2008, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by roshanabey2

You Don't Need To Titles To Play Guild Wars

But you do need titles to be in PUGs, oui?

Also, I wish Burst Cancel's post wasn't so true of the current situation...Ah well. Welcome to Guild Wars.

nekopowa · Apr 28, 2008, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

One thing is not infallible because other things are more fallible... it is irrelevant how other games perform as the discussion is about THIS game and what people do and don't want in THIS game.

I do realize that, but mmo as a genre has it's standards which you can't really run away from. Every bit of content they make costs money, that's why they're releasing chapters and charging for them, not even God Almighty would cover the cost for them if they started changing every single thing players don't like and adding all that's suggested. That's hard to do even if there were 30 active players playing this game, not to talk about millions. It doesn't matter how simple or difficult it is because it's still a type of job where you get paid by hours spent working, and they have to hire a whole chain of people to do get it done.

They are already doing WAY more than they have to, because we all paid for the game and the extra chapters' content as they are, the extra is not covered by anything other than our gameplay time which they don't really profit from since it's a no-subscription game. Next to that we have updates practically every week, even though they're bug fixes and balance updates you can see that they still care for the game.

You'd have a different perspective if you were a GM or a part of the dev team elsewhere, i can't really believe people are so spoiled and complain so much for the smallest of things here. Too much time i guess

romeus petrus · Apr 28, 2008, 06:44 PM // 18:44

PvE title grinding killed the game, it took out a large portion of old players from cooperative playing, and threw them into mindless grinding for some lame title, that anyone can get given enough time.

If any of these dumb titles have any effect on GW2 outside of some marginal cosmetics, that would give GW2 a very rough start. And pretty much kill the interest of any new players to start playing GW2.

/signed for removing all effects grind based PvE titles may have on GW2.

ironox · Apr 28, 2008, 06:54 PM // 18:54

PvP has no grind - except for the grind of practicing till you get good. It's skill > time, and rigorously kept that way. Of course, to get good you may have to play more than any farmer, but that's not grind, that's training. Guild Wars was originally designed for high end play to be the PvP aspect, with PvE really just one long, entertaining, training excercise. It didn't work out that way, because a lot of people (self included) prefer PvE.

So ANet, either through pure generosity of heart, or to gain more repeat customers (take your choice, I'm more interested in the results) added stuff for everybody. If you want skill > time. play PvP as originally intended. If your main interest is lots of gold and stuff, heeeeres URSAN! And lots of stuff for every other taste.

As far as "need to grind to get in a PUG" a lot of them always insisted on cookie cutters. Which is why I only PUG'ed when I needed a laugh. They just have some new stuff to be exclusive about, which at least isn't class-specific anymore. And you certainly don't NEED the PvE skills for anything else. Especially with consumables available.

I am currently grinding one thing - Kurzick faction. I could use it for a couple of skills, but I also don't really mind since I love the Echovald Forest, have 10 characters to play around in it with, and rather enjoy FA and AB. I could HFFF, but it isn't worth the boredom. On the other hand, my Ele is about to start seriously grinding Asura rank.

I had always wanted themed elemental summons for my Ele. The Asura summons are perfect for that. I've been testing them with my SoI Mesmer, and they aren't uber powerful but they are decent skills, and get serious style points for a matching build. So it's off to grind I go. But normal play, and turning in both NM and HM Hero's and Dungeons Books will do it nicely with no extra grind needed, so what's the problem?

Overall, the game has changed a lot from the original Prophecies. Most of it improvement IMO. I would have stopped playing Prophecies by itself long since.

Master Knightfall · Apr 28, 2008, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

But you do need titles to be in PUGs, oui?

Nope sure don't see you and so many others here (elitists) think that just because you don't pug or you can't get in a pug (probably because of your attitudes) that others can't get in any pugs either unless they have some silly title. Welp I don't have a single title and I get into pugs just fine every single day that I want to. People on here need to get off the idea that only what you do think or say is what happens in the game all the time. I've seen differently all too often and know from my own experience there are many people out there willing to pug without Ursans or having to have silly titles. Been in them done that....nuff said GWG elitist forum members don't know all. <grin>

Bryant Again · Apr 28, 2008, 07:12 PM // 19:12

I wouldn't take what I said entirely to heart, Knightfall. While my post may have been a bit unclear, it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to see the point I was attempting to make.

But if what you say is true, I'm sure that I'd be welcomed with open arms in DoA as a Ranger with R1 Norn.

Master Knightfall · Apr 28, 2008, 07:27 PM // 19:27

It is true and yeah if you're willing to hang around you can get into DoA as a Ranger with R1 Norn. The biggest problem is everybody thinks their character/class should be equal to every other class, that's never happened in ANY other MMO/MMORPG or anything else with class designs there's always OUTCASTS but it doesn't have anything to do with if you have a title or some PVE only skill it just has and has always had to do with class racism. Rangers in EQ and really just about every game except DAOC have always been outcasts. they are weak, cowardly (hide and run all the time) and just don't have the dps of wizards and warriors. DnD/RPG has always been about Wizards and Warriors first and then the hybrids of those into other things. You chose your class race that's your fault and class racisms faults that you have to wait a longggggggggggggggg time to get in a group. I chose a warrior class and I hardly and rarely ever have to wait and I don't have any titles or Ursans. Mesmers are in the same boat and any other class outside of the holy trinity. Don't you even notice even Iggy or Izzy whatever his name is balances for the holy trinity and doesn't give a rats butt if he ruins the other classes while doing so. Just as long as nobody can sweep his holy balanced trinty off the map he's a happy camper. Necros have all but been wiped out of GvG play and if they come up with yet another build that can wipe the holy trinity then izzy will nerf them again.

This last weekend I ran in well over 10 sets of teams doing the Hells Principe thang and not once did I get ridiculed for not having a title or Ursans. We made it to the end in all but one group and that was because one of the players played a Necro MM and the minions kept agroing what we didn't want to agro.

I really think people OVER EXaGGERATE this Ursans bs and that PUGS suk online. I've played in a lot of PUGS and 90% of them have been just fine and we completed the missions or what we were after. I think what we have here on GWG and GWonline are a lot of copycat kiddies who heard one kid say it (PUGS SUK) so they all started saying it even though it's not the truth. All PUGS do not suk and even the majority of them do not suk. Go play again in them and you'll see what I've seen for a long time now.

Tyla · Apr 28, 2008, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Well, Knightfall, I suppose your PuG's don't have:
Wammos who think that aggroing everything is good.
Idiots drawing penises on the minimap.
Bad players in general.
People who just want to take the piss.
And I've experience it alot, especially in AB, and PvE.
Heck, a Deep run got ruined because of some Ele and Necro (BiP'ing at the frontlines) thought it was a good idea to frontline with the Warriors and the Ranger (Me

). (Although TanknSpank is lame, I just want my Deep monu!)

And alot of PuG's these days just go Ursan and REQUIRE rank 10+.
I fail to see where you're getting non-Ursan PuG's, so screenshot or it didn't happen.

Bryant Again · Apr 28, 2008, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

...

"Outcasts?" There aren't any "outcast professions" in Guild Wars. The only one that could use some work would be the Mesmer, and even they can succeed just as well as every other profession.

The problem is the PUG mentality that I myself have run into in my whole three years of playing Guild Wars. It leads me to believe that "most players" are like this - applying class and title discrimination - because I've rarely ran into someone who had a different experience. And I've met a *lot* of people. Granted, you may be one of the very few exceptions I've met. But I haven't met a whole lot of people who didn't complain about PUGs, especially much later into the game(s).

So yes, you're right, I cannot say completely and fully that "all PUGs suck" because experiences vary. But you must also note that not everyone has been able to share the same experience you've had.

Also, I'm sure I could very well find a spot if I was just a Ranger who never bothered to level up their Norn rank (I'm not, I'm a Warrior R6) - but most likely not as easily as other professions. That's the large reason I don't like to deal with most players. Because they're the same people who think Paragons are the most nerfed and useless class in PvE (which is, funnily enough, the complete and exact opposite.

In reference to your "PUGs don't suck" point: If PUGs - the leading majority of the game - didn't "suck", then why did ANet have to resort to adding "time>skill" mechanics? See Burst's point for a better definition of the example.

Alex the Great · Apr 28, 2008, 07:44 PM // 19:44

don't like it, don't do it.

don't be jealous of people who did it, just think of all the times you were having fun while they were filling HM rep books or wurm farming.

thats what gets me though the day

Navaros · Apr 28, 2008, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by ironox

PvP has no grind - except for the grind of practicing till you get good. It's skill > time, and rigorously kept that way.

That's not correct. PVP is nothing but grind once one knows all the nuances of it. A R12 player generally wouldn't be any better than an R9 player, the R12 player just invested way, way more PVP grind-time into his PVP.

As to the thread title question, Guild Wars is indeed mostly grind. The argument can be made "the grind is optional", but the thing is, without doing grind-based activities in Guild Wars, there isn't much of anything else to do in Guild Wars once one has beaten the campaigns (which doesn't take long at all).

Alleji · Apr 28, 2008, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

...holy trinity...

lolz.

I thought this concept died about two years ago, but apparently people still think it's relevant?

NEWSFLASH:
- "Nukers" are obsolete. For one, necros have always done more damage than eles and their DPS doesn't get nerfed to shit by armor. A physical-heavy team also has better synergy than a bunch of nukers and can be buffed by weapon spells, orders, and paragons to do more damage. Eles go from subpar in NM to nearly-useless in HM.
- Tanks are not necessary. In NM, a tank is a wasted slot, period. In HM, just prot spirit whatever the hell runs in first, so tank is still a wasted slot.

Let's worship the monks I guess. The only remaining "holy" class (unless you wanna run N/Rt healers, who are less efficient but have infinite energy).

Clarissa F · Apr 28, 2008, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Holy crap! How many times do you beat a dead horse?

Could someone lock this, or at least combine it with the hundred and one other "Grind Wars" threads?

And yeah, Holy Trinity is deader than Jesus.

mystical nessAL · Apr 28, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Proph + factions was the best time. There was enough balance, things were difficault and easy enough, just a good times. Hopefully they will fix it in gw2 and make the world bigger, or harder to discover, so I will be able to explore and discover new stuffs everytime I play, and not do the same thing over and over like the current system is.

Toxage · Apr 28, 2008, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by nekopowa

Whiners really should consider checking other mmorpgs that are out there, only then you'll see how much GW offers over them. Most of them don't even have a community relations team or care what their users want. And that's one single thing that would always make me pick GW over any other game out there.

Really? A company hiring people to lie to you is good?

A community relations manager that doesn't have a clue about the game?

I guess I prefer a company with employees that are honest and knowledgeable about the game.

ZING

Chasing Squirrels · Apr 28, 2008, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thizzle

There was a thread about the most disappointing thing in Guild Wars. Well, one user said the game was originally meant to not have to grind. When your first bought the game back when it was Porphecies only and there was no ursan, lightbringer, sunspear, kurzick or luxon, hard mode, and whatever else they made... was the game just fun to you or did you still have to grind titles and such?

I really liked Guild Wars how it was in the early days. I liked it without titles and especially the ones that give you bonuses. I liked it back when it was only 1 game there was no running to instances, you simply just teleported. One of my favorite things about just Prophecies was only 6 professions! Even though it's nice to have 10 that many isn't needed.

The other campaigns aren't bad, but it seems like ArenaNet changes or adds something every time they release a new camapaign. I don't think any campaign has the same type of bonuses except Prophecies and Nightfall. I like how EoTN has just the dungeon though and that's it.

To get to the point and not keeping going on about nothing... Was it better back then or now and is it just too much grinding unlike it was in the beginning?

Ya I don't see the point of these titles other than showing off. You get nothing out of most titles.

Toxage · Apr 28, 2008, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntherblast

Ya I don't see the point of these titles other than showing off. You get nothing out of most titles.

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

Titles will have a huge impact on Guild Wars 2. The titles you get in Guild Wars will give you access to special weapons, armor, companions, cheaper merchant items, and a few other bonuses.

Bryant Again · Apr 28, 2008, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Whoa, is that new info?

Besides, I think those "special weapons and armor" would be based off of nothing but vanity.

Šiljo · Apr 28, 2008, 08:34 PM // 20:34

bug wars>grind wars>guild wars...

kktnxbai

no,rly all mmorpgs are more/less bout grinding amd they will be on and on....